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for the Fire Department promotional exams. Mrs. Giesser asked if her proposal was put in writing. Mr. Thomay replied he received a memo from the civil service office indicating that Ms. Thomas met with Donna Rote and Annie Kilbane, the civil service secretaries to discuss the promotional exams. Ms. Thomas indicated at that meeting that she would like the promotional exams to be done in-house. Mr. Thomay said they have used independent testing agencies in the past from which they get scores and then take the best qualified candidate. He said the question with an in-house test is who will conduct the testing. He mentioned that no one from the City can be involved in the assessment. He added that doing the in-house assessment would cut out the Civil Service Commission. Mr. Thomay said it was also suggested that the Civil Service Commission conduct the assessment. He does not believe that will work. Mr. Thomay indicated the ability to administrate is at issue, particularly with the Fire Chief. That general knowledge is not something available .to the board members. He said they need someone familiar with fire and police departments. Mr. O'Malley said that the Civil Service Commission is the independent body overseeing the departments and the process by which selections are made. He concurred that the particulars of one field or another, and understanding the job functions and qualifications, is beyond the board's responsibility. Mr. Thomay brought up that when he joined the Commission, Chief Ruple and Chief Bak had just been appointed. He would like the civil service office to check on what company and process was used at that time. He said there may not have to be a written exam for a chief but there would need to be organizational questions to make a proper determination as to ability. Mrs. Giesser mentioned that with a written exam it is often broken up 55/45, or 60/40, which is a typical range for the chief. Mrs. Kilbane pointed out that Ms. Thomas indicated other communities have used the oral assessment. Ms. Thomas also mentioned that she had enough contacts to have someone from the outside come in to conduct the assessment. Mrs. Rote informed the Safety Director at their meeting that questions would have to be submitted for review by the Commission. The issue of increased protests regarding the tests was mentioned. Mrs. Martin indicated she has new business. She obtained a copy of the civil service rules and regulations for Bay Village. She was informed that Rocky River and Lakewood are still working on reviewing their rules. There was further discussion about upcoming meeting dates. It was mentioned that the October meeting may need to be moved up to accommodate Mrs. Martin's schedule. Mr. Thomay asked Mrs. Kilbane to check with Mrs. Rote to see if the fire chief would need a written examination. He said they have done written tests at lower levels for promotions but. he is not certain they went to the'top. He said they all agree there needs to be an oral assessment but the question is who would do it. Mrs. Kilbane asked the board members if they had a preference for a testing company. Mrs. Giesser indicated for a chief test she would go with the Ohio Fire Chiefs' Association. Mr. Thomay agreed. He also pointed out that sometimes a testing company will administer the test. He said they can save money, and have done it in the past, by administering the test themselves. The testing company provided all the material but they actually read the instructions and administered the test. Mrs. Kilbane indicated she will check with Mrs. Rote. Mrs. Giesser said she is in favor of keeping a written exam. An oral assessment is subjective and therefore open to more questions about scoring. She said if they have a written exam it is a more concrete and objective combination. They would have a record and it is a better basis for avoiding protests. Mr. O'Malley indicated the statute suggests a written test. It does not prohibit an oral assessment but it mandates a written. He referred to the rules and regulations book. Mr. Thomay mentioned that since he has been on the board, they have done both. He is not certain about the chief exam however. VI. ADJOURNMENT: J. Thomay made a motion to adjourn the meeting at 8:00 p.m. The motion was seconded by R. Giesser and unanimously approved. 22 —0 -Z_ Thomay, CFiairman ate Annie Kilbane, Asst. Civil Service Secretary