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entrances, accents in Cleveland, Pittsburgh and other places like Mall America one of our most <br />renowned shopping centers. The entire front in a Minneapolis Minnesota climate is E.F.I.S. We <br />believe in, in terms of richness, durability, flexibility with color and many other considerations this <br />product. I don't know how we resolve this because I think there is merit to both cases, but at the <br />end of the day I think this is the company that is making the investment. They are the company <br />that is taking the risk and they believe they have the formula for success to make that facility <br />work. We as the owners of the mall have a vested interest in them having successful business as <br />well as we are also making a considerable investment to accommodate them as an addition to the <br />mall: Based on that we are proponents of proceeding with the building as proposed. Mr. Tallon: <br />That is fine and we are proponents of maybe changing some things that the city would like. Mr. <br />Barker: Which we have done. Mr. Tallon: That is what we are here to discuss. That is what it is <br />all about, if we are at a loggerhead then we are at a loggerhead. We are going to have opinions, <br />we are going to have things like this, and we are just going to have to work it out. Mr. Barker: <br />How do we do that? Mr. Rinker: To be blunt we are at loggerheads, and what we are asking is <br />that if we are going to follow the rules here. We are asking that you respect the fact that certain <br />decisions have been made proprietary decisions are made by the entity that is going to be building <br />this, investing in it, maintaining it and operating it. This is not stated lightly! None of this has been <br />presented to be arbitrary O.K. and I think we have reached a point where no amount of <br />convincing one way or the other will help. At the end of the day is it appropriate and reasonable <br />for the City to say you can't use it because we don't like it. Mr. Tallon: The bottom line then is if <br />it does not go in, in E.F.I.S. you are not going to build here is that it. Mr. Rinker: What we are <br />asking is are you saying you are not going to approve it because you have personal opinions as to <br />what is quality and what is not. When evidently it is not demonstrated from building codes in the <br />state of Ohio, from building code in the City of North Olmsted and from representations that are <br />made by people, that are professionals in the field. What we are saying is if we recognize there is <br />a difference of opinions that should have a place that should not be part of a decision making <br />process as to whether or not this is something that is appropriate. If you accept that we are also <br />trying to show you there is a very legitimate corrunitment made to make this be something you <br />can be proud of not something you feel like you are getting pressed into. With all do respect <br />when you make such an insistent argument that categorically masonry is better and that is the end <br />of the discussion it does not provide us much elbow roorri at all. That is the problem and we really <br />do not want to be in that position. Mr. Tallon: We said leave the entranceways and the coping, <br />now what we are bargaining here or conceding. Mr. Rinker: I think the reason you are saying <br />those things is that they are demonstrated to be superior ways to achieve a look. Mr. Tallon: No I <br />am not! I defiantly disagree with that. Mr. Rinker: That is not what I am hearing from you and <br />that is what I have heard from an architect. Mr. Tallon: He said it was easier to work with, he did <br />not say you couldn't accomplish the same things with masonry because you can. Mr. Rinker: At <br />the end of the day if it maintains itself if it functions as a building material, why then the insistence <br />that it not be used. I honestly do not understand that. That is legislating an opinion. Mr. Tallon: <br />No, T am not saying that, it is for the continuity of the entire shopping center and the esthetics. <br />Mr. Rinker.: A point that Mr. Yager made, and I am not trying to put him in the middle of this. <br />However, we are trying to listen to a number of different voices so that is why I sight to it. You <br />mention earlier the step down and we gave each other blank looks, as if we are not sure. What I <br />am hearing from an architectural standpoint from a design standpoint you are not going to get the <br />step-down, once I finally understood the point you were making as far as the three story down to <br />13