12/04/2003 Minutes - Laserfiche WebLink

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Department is looking at the codes that are in place right now. They have a situation where there are non-conforming pole signs and the new code is calling for ground signs that are in compliance with the code. It is an opportunity to bring the sign package into compliance with the code. Instead of a 20 or 25 foot pole sign, the code is calling for 12 feet or smaller ground signs, as an example. The reference to existing conditions is not in the sense that there is some form or entitlement. That is why the Building Department writes it up that way, so they can see what the code calls for and what the applicant is proposing. 1dIr. Conway added that they went through a lot of trials and tribulations with the sign ordinance. They have been sued and gone to federal court. They worked with local sign people and the Chamber of Commerce to come up with a document that would suit everybody. He does not know of any need to exceed 12 feet in height as there is no obstruction. He said the applicant would have to provide good cause as to why they need to exceed 12 feet. Secondly, they are allowing one ground sign per site. There is an argument to be made that car dealerships need direction on their sites. They don't need to be out on the curb line, they need to be on site, strategically placed so people can make their way about the lot. As far as signs on the building, all dealerships are unique. There are different areas of the building where they need to direct people. There may be an individual sign to direct people to service, and one for the body work. He does not see a problem with those because for the most part, they are not seen from Lorain Road. They need to take a look at the impact on Lorain by putting two directional signs out there. He reminded everyone that the city has to be "content neutral". This applicant has a reason for putting a directional sign out but the next guy that comes along can change that lettering and the city cannot do anything about it. He suggested the board keep that in mind in its review of the proposal. The applicant needs to give good grounds for a variance, not because Nissan told them to or because they want it. Mr. Maloney said he would favor a 12 foot height on the road sign rather than 20 feet. There would still be 6 feet of clearance for anybody to get underneath and safety to see going in and out. He said 20 feet goes beyond what they want in the city today. Mr. Gnat said they need to look at how many of the issues they can have settled tonight. Mrs. Sergi asked if they can live with a 12 foot sign. Mr. Chuppa said he works for United Auto Group and he cannot speak for them. He will have to pass the information on to the president. Mr. Chuppa said he thinks 12 feet will be a problem. There is currently a 25 foot sign there and it helps with visibility. 1WIr. Kremzar reminded him that what is there now has nothing to do with what is being proposed. Mr. Chuppa said he understands that but the monument signs just don't have the visibility. Mr. Kelly suggested they go through each variance request. Mr. Konold asked when the existing signs were put in. Mr. Gnat said he believes it was about 18 years ago. Mr. Gnat asked Mr. Conway for clarification on what he was referring to concerning someone else coming in on the site. 1VIra Conway said the city has to be content neutral and cannot control what someone puts on a sign. The city can only control the sign size and location. He said to have 2 additional signs by the walk does not make sense. Mr. Gnat asked Mr. Chuppa if a customer can enter one side of the lot and still get to the other side without having to leave the lot. 1VYr. Chuppa said they can reach both. Mr. Kremzar asked if people driving by actually look for the arrows. Mr. Gnat said he believes people do look for them and that is the reason for the request. Mrs. Sergi mentioned the measurements she has for the service sign. There is a request for 7 feet 9 inches and then the Nissan pre-owned sign. She asked if they can be condensed. Mr. Gnat said there are signs that have been made available to them and to change the design of the sign gets into custom work. It is possible but puts an extra financial burden on the dealership. Mrs. Sergi said she does not think the sign is necessary, it is a very large sign. There are 3 signs that read "Nissan" right there and she questioned if they need one that reads "Nissan Pre-Owned". Mr. Kelly said it is a matter of having smaller signs and redesigning the signs is not the board's concern. Mrs. Sergi said they are asking for 3 signs that read "service". She asked if that is necessary. There would be 1 on the building and 2 at the street. Mr. Gnat said the sign on the building is much more important than the ones by the street. The board addressed each request individually. Mr. 1VIaloney said they will hold off on request #1 and #2. He then reviewed request #3. Mr. Gnat stressed the signs are pulled from a stock inventory. It's like buying a car. A person wouldn't call the dealership and ask them to make a car a little bit smaller. The signs are produced in mass quantity and then distributed to dealerships. Mr. Conway said if the third 5