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case. Mr. Tallon: In a situation like this were you have the light tan part of the wall, which is E.F.I.S. what would be the difference putting tan brick in that area. Mr. Yager: Well I am not sure that there is a difference. Mr. Tallon: Now if you do that if you correlate that, put the brick in there, and get to the top to the cornice, couldn't you use E.F.I.S. on top of there. Mr. Yager: Absolutely, that is the debate, how good does brick look when you are using a large fagade of it. Interestingly enough when I drove to SouthPark mall. I thought they had used E.F.I.S. on several of their facades. I drove out there and looked at the structures and they had brick, split-face, or some type of masonry material. It surprised me a little-bit that it was a masonry material because as a big farade how different does it look in an E.F.I.S. material. The detail dictates the successes or failure of some of these facilities. The detail seams to be stronger in the E.F.I.S. material then in the masonry. The only acceptation is Nordstrom in Beachwood mall, were the masonry detailing of all the department stores I visited and I think there were about 18. Nordstrom, facility is the only masonry facility that I would strongly recommend showing up here. Mr. Tallon: I am sure that the detailing and the masonry, and I really do not know the cost of the E.F.I.S. compared to the masonry. I have no Idea, but if you can achieve the same quality either way then my opinion is go with the masonry, it is much better. If you feel because of the intricacies of the coping up there, it would be better to go with the E.F.I.S. because of the nook and crannies. Then put that at the top of the building. To me there is no reason why you can not use a masonry brick to get that same effect. Mr. Yager: You're right, there isn't it is a flat fagade. The issue is one of their choices of materials. No differently then I shop at different stores then my brother. We do have essentially masonry shopping mall. There is E.F.I.S. at the entrance and there is metal and a number of other things from when the renovations were done. 1VIr. Tallon: I am sure that the entranceways are E.F.I.S. is that correct Mark? The big arches will be E.F.I.S. Mr. Yager: Yes. Mr. Tallon: In order to get that it is probably easier to form and shape and everything else because of the thing there. That is O.K. that is fine, as you say it is easier to work with and can probably do a little tnore, then you can with masonry. Without a substantial amount of work to get the masonry to work, to get the masonry to look like that. On the other hand, when you are doing a flat surface like that there is no difference. Mr. Yager Interestingly enough as an Architectural review board member it has always been my charge and call to try to improve the level of masonry in the community. Therefore, it is funny that I am at odds in this particular situation. I see it and say: Well whether it be masonry or whether it be E.F.I.S. the key to the success of this to be sure we leave the detail around the entrance, around the archway and at the cornice. So if you have a masonry fagade with an E.F.I. S. cap, so be it. Mr. Tallon: That is what I was stating before, I did not want to change any of the entrances. The entrances are a very good architectural statement. Now you are saying that the coping is very intricate too and that is fine obviously you can not tell the intricacies on this but if that is the case then fine. I do not see any other reason not to have the rest of the building in masonry. You get the same effect that you do with the E.F.I. S. and you get a stronger product that is going to withstand the test of time. Mr. Rinker: Let me ask one other question, I toss it out to both of you because I appreciate the comments that are going back and forth. I have been spectating a little bit and that is probably just as well. That statement was made the other night by Mr. Cassiere and you said it again here tonight. We are not asking you to take it on faith. We are telling you it is the experience of Dillard's whose people apply this and who installs it. I think any building commissioner is going to tell you that half the battle in these things is the application. It is critical that the application be done in a professional way that it is done by people that know how to do it. There you have a 10