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Absolutely! I think any architect would tell you there are examples of masonry where someone has messed up. Just because it is, a different product that is not automatically a reason to say it does not work. We are trying to be very conscientious and blending between the glass and the other materials that really should architecturally work very well indeed. I think, it is fair to state that if the assertion is that it simply will not work, then we respectfully disagree. Mr. Tallon: That is fine. Mr. Asseff: What material is J.C. Penney's and Sears's facade made-up of. NIr. Rinker: Everything in the mall right now is masonry. Mr. Rinker: The reason I cited Beachwood is that Beachwood was all masonry until Dillard's and Sacs redid their buildings and they chose to use the E.F.I.S material. They chose that! These two national chains are very self-conscious about the image they project. I would challenge anyone to say that Beachwood has not accomplished a very strong positive image. They want to attract people here, what we envision with this building is that it will be a magnet it will not repel as the material is not designed to work that way. Mr. Tallon: That is fine! As I said before, what I would like to see on this is brick from the existing mall to Dillard's. Dillard's brick may be a different color and according to your rendering it is, but at the same elevation all the way down to the doors and on both sides so that we have a continuous look. I want masonry around the frame, you have that and I still do not understand why you cannot use masonry on the whole building. There is no reason for it, what you show us there is nothing, but a plain wall. There is no architectural statement it is a plain wall. You could take different color masonry and get the same affect, probably even a little bit better. What statement is there to a plain wall? Tell me! Mr. Rinker: You are saying it is a plain wall, and we have to accept that as a conclusion. Mr. Tallon: What does it took like to you? Mr. Rinker: This is a drawing, the material and the textured surface presents. Mr. Tallan: That is what is going to appear after it is done because, of the massiveness of the wall. Mr. Rinker: We really hoped not to argue the point. I think we have to accept at some stage that we are going to have differences in taste. We will just go round, and round on that issue and we do not want to do that. What we are saying is that for 20 years Dillard's has used this, this is part of their national image. Tliey have people that apply it, people whom maintain it and overall it is a package deal that over the years have been refined and it works for them. So when you say why do it, that is because they say this is our imaDe that we project. Mr. Tallon: That is fine if that is what they want but, what I am saying is that in this situation the better idea as far as I am concerned is for the continuation of masonry throughout the building. That is all I am saying in this instance only, I am not saying anywhere in Louisiana or anywhere else I am not saying that. All that I am saying is here in North Olmsted at Great Northern mall, I believe that the masonry would be a much better product for this area and for this project, that is all I'm saying. Mr. Spalding: I would agree with Mr. Ta11on it just makes since to me to have a consistency and I think that certainly you could achieve that with different color masonry. I do not know why you cannot; it does not make any since why you could not. Mr. Rinker: I guess the question response is why, what makes the masonry a requirement in your view. Mr. Spalding: It is the consistency all around the mall that is all. That is what we have now and that is what we want. Mr. Tallon: It gives uniformity to the mall, yet at the same time you will stand out because of the different colors, the different size and location. Your architectural statements are your entrances. That is what your architectural statements are. Mr. Rinker: It is the whole thing. Mr. Tallon: I think, it is very nice, I agree with that. I am not disagreeing with the project or anything else. I am just saying I think my opinion is. The consistency of this area will be better served with a masonry building throughout its entirety. With different colors like you have proposed just different color masonry, which will achieve the 5