01/22/2002 Minutes - Laserfiche WebLink

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there is no way you could tell you are adding .02 foot candles to a space. Mr. Koeth asked for confirmation that there is light there already and .02 is being added, and closer to the mound it's 4.62. Right at the tip of the mound and over into Dewey Rd. is 4.62, 4.32 at the tip, which is on Dewey Road. Mr. Parsons said that is what the calculation, shows. He added that nothing is absolute in lighting. They have flat lenses they are using with IES cutoff forward throw optics so they are not creating glare bombs. They have no sag glass so they are not getting any high angle incident rays off the bottom of a sag glass lens. They are using flat lenses expressly for that purpose. It is iinpossible with today's technology to have a light fixture there, even if you had a 100 watt metal halide, you had a 50 watt metal halide, you are still going to get a small percentage of what's called back light from that fixture. There is no way to liandle that. Mr. Parsons said he would love if you could because that would give you an exact cutoff. You could set a pole 4' off your property line and you would know that you would get no light spill behind it. What they try to do is ininimize as best they can the amount of light they are putting out. Mr. Farrell added that with the existing lights, the light spillage onto Dewey and into those residential properties is much more significant than the light proposals they are trying to get through the commission. Mr. Farrell said you have 1000 watt lights on poles along Lorain and it's his belief there is more spillage from those poles than what they are suggesting. By removing those 4 lights and going into the light scheme they are proposing, it will be much less noticeable to the residents. Mr. Koeth said it would be a lot brighter. 1VIr. Farrell said the lot is going to be lit up much brighter but with respect to inconveniencing the residents, their light scheine will be much more favorable to them. Mr. Koeth then asked about the lights in the back by the auto storage area. He said there are 4 lights there which are C lights. Mr. Asseff indicated they are 250's. Mr. Asseff asked if they are high pressure sodium. Mr. Parsons said they are metal halide, again also for stability, although it's a car storage area, there are people that will walk through. Mr. Koeth asked how much wattage is on the B light poles and Mr. Farrell replied 400 watts. Mr. Koeth said there are two on each pole, so there is 800 watts half way back. Mr. Parsons said to remember they are cutoff fixtures and they are throwing the light forward, they are not using a semi-cutoffwhich would give you a lot more uplight, and that is what creates the light pollution that tlirows light out at high angle incidence and would make it more visible to the people on Dewey. They are using the cutoff, flat lens, forward throw, trying to direct as much of that light output into the interior of the parking area and not onto the public way. Mr. Spalding asked whether light pole C has an open top or is enclosed. Mr. Parsons said it is enclosed, it's a lens fixture, it's a different way of mounting it. It's called a yolk mount but it's the same concept. Mr. Parsons confirmed it has the same cutoff optics. Mr. Hreha said he has been on the cominission for a little over three years and it has always been zero at the lot line. He understands the logic with the two poles up there, and that there is virtually nothing you can do to keep the spillage over, which is probably why the commission asked to have those poles eliminated a month or so ago. He understands they are trying to ininimize the spillage but for his three years, it was zero. He asked Mr. Parsons why they should be more special than all the people the board has handled over the last three years. Mr. Parsons said the poles are 15' away from the lot line. To remove them is to do away with the merchandising and see-ability. Mr. Hreha said to do something to make it zero at the lot line. He indicated that is what they have done for everybody elser all other car dealers, and all the other developers that have come in. Mr. Hreha said you are asking the board to set a precedent and it is not warranted. Mr. Asseff said if you eliminate the D light pole at the very corner and move the other D light pole off of the Dewey Rd. facing and more toward the middle, you could probably spread enough light on that corner to illuminate the vehicles, and could do better with the light spillage as well. Mr. Hreha said if they allow them to have .OS in the middle of Dewey Rd. then the next guy would come in and ask why he can't have .06. If we hold on zero, which is what we've done, then we won't have that problem. Mr. Farrell said the lights there now, placed there by the City of North Olmsted, have spillage on those residential properties and the light spillage you are asking Halleen KIA to do away with will not improve the visibility on that road. 5